Friday, May 05, 2006

Immigrants

"My God, I've raised a liberal!" That's what my Dad said to me this week.

We were talking about the recent demonstrations by immigrants. My father was taking the stance that: A) All they managed to do was cost themselves a day's pay, and B) No matter what they are complaining about, the fact is: They're better off here than in Mexico... so what's the problem?

Naturally, I took the opposite side because that's the way I was raised by my father. Always look at both sides of the debate. Of course, now he probably regrets it because he's the one I'm most often debating with.

First, let me point out that regardless of what side you come down on in the immigrant debate, you have to be impressed with what they've done lately. It makes me proud to be an American when I see a huge group of people protesting peacefully, without a riot, and all because they love this country and want to be a bigger part of it. It's hard to hate people for that, although some people do. It's funny how some people think this is the greatest country in the world and get pissed off when other people want to live here too.

Second, the work walk-out was not meant to be a threat, It was meant to demonstrate just how many immigrants there are in this country and how much we rely on them. It did a great job. people everywhere were talking about it and it led the news on every network.

I don't know what the solution is to the problem of immigration. Obviously, you can't just open the borders. At the same time, you can't continue to allow such a large section of our population to do so much work without allowing them to become part of the country. We've tried that before. Whenever someone says, "They should shut-up about not being citizens.... they're still better off here than back home," it reminds me of the plantation owner who claims to take "really good care" of his slaves.

22 Comments:

Anonymous said...

OK, you knew I would respond so here goes. I was lucky enough to be born in the USA and after a lifetime of working to support my family and raise my children to be good conservative citizens, I find that I have a liberal son. Well la – de - %$#* - da. I even moved you to Louisiana in your formative years to try to brain wash the California out of you but I guess it didn't take. You watch too much Oprah!

I also am proud to see the large group of people peacefully protest. You didn't mention this but I am most proud of the fact that the leaders of our country and the law enforcement people also allowed it to be peaceful. No head knocking or jail time. It's sad that the protest was to support a bunch of criminals, that's right criminals. When they entered the country illegally, they became criminals and I simply don't support any criminal act no matter how many people peacefully demonstrate.

It can by argued that our country was founded by illegal acts; that the Declaration of Independence, according to the laws set down by England was an illegal document; that the Revolutionary War was nothing more than an illegal insurrection led by criminals. All true but I don't care, that's the way we conservatives think.

Seriously, when the country was founded we said “Give us your weak, your poor, yada yada” but at the time we had about 2.76 zillion acres of unsettled land and if you were to make it, you had to make it on your own. There was no government assistance. Today there is barely enough room for those we have but we are still willing to take on more, legally. That's what high rise condos are all about.

There must however, be a limit and our law makers have set those limits for the good of all who come here to live legally. Take the people from Japan who come here and rise to earn six figures in an electronics firm, or the Chinese who six months later own a restaurant, or the Indian who either becomes a doctor or the owner of three seven eleven stores. All of these people are self supporting people who pay taxes and help our economy to grow. It's a shame that there taxes are being spent to pay welfare and health care to a group of illegals who are only interested in mowing lawns and picking fruit.

Love
Dad

3:59 PM  
Booray said...

Okay, great point about the Declaration and all...

We have plenty of room. The midwest and north are so sparse it's crazy. Hi-rise condo's aren't about Mexicans needing a place to live. The Mexicans don't live there, they just build them cheaply for us Americans to live in. Oh, and they cut the grass too.

Consider this: if you live in poverty in a country with no opportunity and you cross the border illegally to work and provide for your family you are a criminal. If your home is destroyed by a hurricane and you break into Wal-Mart to get fresh water for your children you are a survivor. Discuss...

What's wrong with cutting grass and picking fruit? Really, Dad, you live in a community where immigrants cut your grass and paint your house. You don't get to pay them a shit wage AND criticize them for not demanding more money. They work hard for an unlivable wage making your life easier.... the bastards!

I'm not a liberal. I'm a conservative when it come to fiscal responsibility. Now if we could just get the Republican Party to be conservative. Remember the Republicans? The guys that tried to pass a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT when Clinton was President that would require a balanced budget? Now that they're in power they're running up dept like a freshman on spring break.

I agree with conservatives on affirmative action. I'm against affirmative action in college enrollment. Not because I don't want to help people but because the problem isn't that minorities need help getting into college, it's that the children of this country aren't getting an equal education the first 12 years of school. Fix that.

When I do agree with the liberals on things like welfare and medicare it's not because I want to spend my tax money on deadbeats and drug addicts, it's because I'm convinced that, as much as it costs, it's still cheaper than the alternative... and safer, too.

We definitly agree on one thing, though. The illegal who crosses the border does it for one reason: there's a job waiting for him. Get rid of the jobs and you will get rid of the illegals. Show me a politician who is tough on immigration AND is willing to tell his constituents that they should pay more for food, landscaping, home construction, etc. Where's the guy who wants to build a wall between us and Mexico, prosecute any business that doesn't hire Americans AND raise the minimum wage so that the American who cuts grass 10 hours a day can buy a house? I'll vote for that guy.

9:38 PM  
Anonymous said...

Duane, you ignorant slut!

You missed the point. I'm not against aliens, I'm against illegal aliens.

BTW, had a great time yesterday. Sam is very proud of "her" toy room.

9:41 AM  
gary holladay said...

In your quote "if you live in poverty in a country with no opportunity and you cross the border illegally to work and provide for your family you are a criminal. If your home is destroyed by a hurricane and you break into Wal-Mart to get fresh water for your children you are a survivor" you are comparing apples and oranges. and i hear little mention of the countless jobs we've already sent Mexico. I'm still waking in a cold sweat at night hearing those "giant sucking sounds", now they need to break in our house and steal some more money, including MY hard earned taxes in the form of all the damned entitlements. I'm ready to send the statue of liberty back to friggin' France!
What about Mexico? Nobody thinks about the driving forces behind the exodus. I'll tell you why: It's a mob state being run by the most violent trafficantes in the region through a puppet, faux presidency whose loyalty is not to the Mexican population. Bribery, death squads within it's law enforcement and military and gangs rule that poor excuse for a country. It's chaos. It's awful ironic that Mexico's el Presidente, one could argue, is a former "Coke" dealer.
All social arguments aside, the most important standpoint we all must look at is one of national security. At a time when the unexpected is fast becoming the expected the only clear answer to the border issue is to militarize until it can be more efficently and effectively controlled. We're being targeted by groups of people who are adept at getting maximum damage with limited resources so any question to security issues we can remove from our plate frees up our resources to be put to other uses in the war against radical islam (yes, there IS a connection).
You're mention of the Midwest being available for illegal immigrants to locate has already started. I was born and raised in the Midwest and to be honest, i like it just the way it is. It's a nice place to raise MY kids. I'd like to keep my little part of America the way it was for me growing up. So quit sending MS 13 up here to my neck of the woods, amigo. I've witnessed from afar (luckily) Beardstown, Illinois' crimewave triple ever since the meat packing plant there started their own little NAFTA.
One thing i learned here in the last region of true Americana: listen to your old man, he's wiser than you.

12:32 AM  
Booray said...

I guess you could say that I'm comparing apples to oranges because the guy who breaks into Wal-Mart is stealing, where as the illegal immigrant is actually working to support his family. You're right... it's not the same thing at all.

As far as sending jobs to Mexico is concerned, that has nothing to do with the immigration issue. You can be upset about that all you want but it's not related and you know it. Give me a list of every product that you refuse to use because of overseas manufacturing and we can have a discussion about outsourcing. As long as you continue to reap the rewards of cheap labor you have no room to bitch. I'm so sick of people complaing about losing jobs overseas while they continue to shop at Wal-Mart, a company that buys more than 50% of it's merchandise overseas and pays it's employees an unlivable wage. Yes, I shop at Wal-mart too, which is why I don't complain about outsourcing.

I do like the way that you use the corrupt Mexican government as an excuse for NOT letting these poor people who were unfortunate enough to be born there into our country. Just so I understand, you're argument is that we shouldn't help them BECAUSE they come from a terrible place. Shouldn't that be the reason to help them? ( side note: The Beardstown crime rate is an interesting point. has the town experienced three times the crime per capita, or, has the crime rate kept pace with the population growth?)

Finally, You lost me completly with this statement, " I was born and raised in the Midwest and to be honest, i like it just the way it is. It's a nice place to raise MY kids. I'd like to keep my little part of America the way it was for me growing up." I'm fairly certain that same argument was used by a group in the 50's and 60's..... The Ku Klux Klan. You must be very proud.

Listen, I'm not even necessarily saying that we shouldn't do something about the borders. I'm just saying that I'm sick and tired of people bitching about jobs and outsourcing while continuing to reap the REWARDS of jobs and outsourcing. It's like the plantation owner complaining because the slaves eat too much. It's embaressing. It's almost as bad as the way everyone is complaining about the high price of gas while complaining every time the government even suggests higher MPG minumums. Everybody wants something for nothing (don't get me started on cutting taxes during a war).

2:37 PM  
Sagnuts said...

I like girls with big tits.

8:05 PM  
Booray said...

Hmmm, likes big tits... screen name "sagnuts"... I wonder who that could be?

10:05 PM  
Sagnuts said...

Just trying to break up the tension between you and the Midwestern guy.

1:22 PM  
Anonymous said...

the slaves were here by force, they did not sneak in.......

2:55 PM  
gary holladay said...

1.) The apples and oranges comparison: I appreciate the acknowledgement of your revelation, glad to help. The problem there is, along with the desperate hard working honest apples, there are some of the worst of the worst desperado MS 13, Latin King oranges sneaking right over with them.
2.) Sending jobs to Mexico: It is, in fact, a significant part of the issue. That's why they're all sneaking over here--more jobs. But that doesn't upset me as much as you may think and as far as product choice goes, sometimes it's the only choice because some products are only manufactured overseas. Outsourcing is an unfortunate downside to capitalism: The bottom line mentality that is ever present in corporate philosophy. As far as Wal Mart goes, i get my Hardware from Big R, my groceries from Shnuck's, my gas from Speedway because i hate standing in line at Wal Mart and those old farts annoy me at the door. It would be impossible to only buy American made products. Your silly challenge to do so is a waste of bandwidth and nonproductive.
3.) Placement of responsibility on Mexico: If we let every Chang, Abdul and Jose from every garbage dump country on Earth that you bleeding hearts feel sorry for what do you think would happen? I'll tell you what'll happen: the economy would crumble under the pressure of a spiked entitlement money grab while simultaneously driving down all wages in the entire country. Icould go on and on enlightening you and citing examples but i'm not your dad.
And finally,
4.) Since i lost you on my vision for my children's future, let me guide you in: in my part of America, it is still dominated by a mixture of Caucasion and African Americans who are of a Christian faith. If my desire to rear my kids in such an environment where we stop to help one another on the street or leave our houses unlocked while we go to church makes me a racist comparable to the Ku Klux Klan in your opinion that's ok, this is America, you have the right to throw your left wing hate words. I'm sorry you feel that since we disagree i must be a hayseed chewin' dirtfarmer with a white hood in his closet. I'd say your a bit stereotypical.
The Beardstown area's only significant rise in population since the meat packing plant began hiring illegals(yes, many are in fact illegal) is the Hispanic demograph. Yes, i am very proud. I'm also proud of my Irish/German roots. My family came here legally. Your attempt to shame me with racist connotations is a standard hate tactic is a card you lefties always play when you can no longer keep up with someone in a political sparring match and it has not shamed me in the least.

11:19 PM  
gary holladay said...

P.S. I'm not saying we shouldn't help them (illegal aliens) because they come from a poor country, i'm saying we souldn't help them because they are breaking the laws of our country, but you may not be able to understand the concept of order and fairness to those who DO come here legally.

11:23 PM  
gary holladay said...

One more thing, Dr. Spinmeister, i mentioned that my biggest problem with the border issue is one of national security yet you had no self imagined witty, high horse response to that mention. Why not?

11:30 PM  
Booray said...

This is just getting better by the minute.

First, let me address the border security issue that is such a huge problem. I'm not denying it. However, you surely must admit that our border with Canada is far longer than Mexico and then there's the whole issue of the appalling lack of port security. Bottom line: If a terrorist wants to get into this country (or sneak in a bomb), the border security with Mexico isn't going to stop them. It's convenient to throw into the argument but it's really not what it's all about now is it. If you are really worried about a dirty bomb and have to choose, where would you rather live: The Mexican border or the Port of Los Angeles. The Mexican immigration issue isn't about terrorism. Do something about the 99% of the cargo containers that come into this country un-inspected and then you can start working on the Mexican border. Remind me how many of the 9/11 terrorists snuck in through Mexico...

It is not impossible to buy American. The fact is that people don't want to pay that price. You can scream and call me a liberal all you want but as long as Americans continue to profit off the backs of cheap labor from Mexico they have no right to complain. If every person in this country who thinks like you boycotted Wal-Mart tomorrow you'd see real change quick. "Silly challenge?" Tell it to the bus boycotts in Alabama in the 60's. When I was DJ, all it took was MENTION of a possible boycott on the Tom Joyner Morning Show to bring the CEO of COMP USA into the studio THE NEXT DAY. You really think that Wal-Mart wouldn't stand up and take notice if Rush Limbaugh sounded the charge? The thing is, no one wants to do that because that would mean paying more money for goods produced here in America (not to mention the Wal-Mart stock in our 401K's). Talk is cheap. Show me that you are serious and I'll take you seriously.

I don't begrudge your right to want to wall off America and enforce your religous ideology on everyone in your community. All I'm saying is you should be willing to do what's necessary to bring it about: Close the border with Mexico, make it illegal to import goods so they are made in America and enforce a livable wage so that hard-working American's can live the American Dream. As long as you are profitting from something, you will not be taken seriously by me when you come out against it. For example, I refuse to listen to the arguments put forth by PETA. True, they're all a bunch of whacko's, but I would still at least be willing to listen to their argument and formulate an opinion except for one simple fact: The Vice-President of PETA is a diabetic. That's right, she owes her life to insulin which she takes daily and as we all know, insulin was developed using extensive animal testing (dogs, to be exact). So how can I possibly take PETA seriously?

My problem is not with closing the borders, it's with the hypocrisy of wanting everything without any sacrifice.

Finally....

"...in my part of America, it is still dominated by a mixture of Caucasion and African Americans who are of a Christian faith." Really.... you're going to use that sentence to start off you're paragraph explaining that you're not prejudice? Listen, you can continue to rant at me all you want on this issue because I'm not going to call you a racist anymore. I apologize. I'll just let everyone read what you write and leave it at that. I will say this, if you are in fact not prejudice and you accept people regardless of their race or religion, you really have a bad way of expressing it.

4:29 PM  
gary holladay said...

Canada: of course i'll admit that border is much longer, it's fact, which is what i deal in: facts. We don't have near the illegal infiltration problems up there as we do at the Mexican border. There's another fact.
Port security: You're appalled at the situation of port security but exactly the opposite on border security. How do you explain that?
The fact of the security matter is that The United States will, by default based on our freedoms and liberties we enjoy here in the greatest land on Earth, never be 100% secure. I'm not sure where you got your numbers on shipping container inspection but the U.S. Customs actually has offices at ports all over the globe that inspect shipments before they even depart for the U.S. That's a fact too. So, since we actually have laws right now prohibiting the undocumented crossing of our borders we should have been enforcing them 20 years ago when it wasn't near as bad of a problem. Shouldn't we be doing everything we can to plug up any holes in national security we can in order to free up valuable resources to be better put to better use, like more shipping container inspection for a second time when it arives here, which is rather useless anyway since if there is a nuke on board, it's already here and boom, we're screwed anyway. Remind me how many 9/11 hijackers came in on a container ship.

Boycotts: I never mentioned boycotting Wal Mart or anyone else. My wife loves that dump. I don't go there because i hate the damn lines and the Jurassic mobs of old settlers in blue vests bombarding me with empty carts from 3 directions at once. I swear, i think those guys are getting paid commision based on number of carts recieved by customers. And give me a break with the whole bus story: Don't compare you're "silly" challenge to me to boycott some store for reasons unknown to me to one of the most important events in American history, you give yourself too much credit. How did we get from border and national security to boycotting Wal Mart? I mentioned as a reason why they are coming here (jobs) and the fact that we already sent them a bunch (jobs) and all of a sudden i'm bitching about foreign made products?

Anyhoo, Boo, on to the Race card you keep pulling: I always have a hard time articulating myself efficiently to you libs, so since you are going to allow me to "scream" (?), "rant" etc. on My America, i will indeed continue. I gave you some background on the raical makeup of the community i'm from. It just so happens to be where i come from, that makes me a racist?? I gave you the background on the majority of that population's religious makeup, that makes me a religious zealot trying to spread my "ideology"?? Just because that's the majority of the demographic around my area does not make me a racist. Neither does my desire to raise my children here either. Central Illinois happens to be a peaceful area and it fits me and my wishes for my family and i would like to keep it that way, WITHOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS, that does not make me racist. Your political correctness has gotten so far out of hand that any mention of the words Caucasion, African-American, and Christian evidently sends your irrational brain into meltdown. You're way too uptight Booboo. I've never had a problem accepting others based on their race or religion until you said i did.

"I don't begrudge your right to want to wall off America and enforce your religous ideology on everyone in your community"

You see how you are twisting and spinning words into 3rd rate psychobabble? That's the same tactic all you libs use because you lack the ability to comprehend rational, realistic, fact based thought and have to resort to making up crap to get away from the issues at hand. I could tell you do or have at one time work or worked in media, probably NBC or worse yet CBS.

1:51 AM  
gary holladay said...

Oh, and you posed the question "where would you rather live: The Mexican border or the Port of Los Angeles". Answer: neither. I would rather live right here where folks think rationally.

2:01 AM  
Booray said...

I'll try to answer your questions in the order you presented them. Fortunatly, many of your questions have already been answered so I'll just cut and paste...

The border security/port security issue:
You said:
"You're appalled at the situation of port security but exactly the opposite on border security. How do you explain that?"
I'm not the opposite on border security, as I said in this quote: "First, let me address the border security issue that is such a huge problem. I'm not denying it. " The point I was making is that the immigration debate is not as much about "security" as you make it out to be. I made that point by referencing the appalling lack of security in other places in America that aren't getting near the attention. The actual number of inspected shipping containers was around 2% a few years ago. I don't know what it is today but I do know that it is considered the largest potential threat by Congress (followed closely by the lack of security at chemical plants and the like...)

You said: "Remind me how many 9/11 hijackers came in on a container ship."
The same number that came in from Mexico. Yet you are much more concerned about Mexico. That's my point. (side note: We have caught one terrorist that I know of sneaking into this country with plans to blow up LAX Airport. He came from Canada.)

You said: "How did we get from border and national security to boycotting Wal Mart?"
We got there when you said, "and i hear little mention of the countless jobs we've already sent Mexico. I'm still waking in a cold sweat at night hearing those "giant sucking sounds",
And this, "Sending jobs to Mexico: It is, in fact, a significant part of the issue."
Again, I'm just pointing out that if it's such a concern then you should be going after the real problem: Wal-Mart, Nike and the like...

You said: "Just because that's the majority of the demographic around my area does not make me a racist."
No, it doesn't. But here's a re-cap of what you have said so far:
"I was born and raised in the Midwest and to be honest, i like it just the way it is. It's a nice place to raise MY kids. I'd like to keep my little part of America the way it was for me growing up."
"Since i lost you on my vision for my children's future, let me guide you in: in my part of America, it is still dominated by a mixture of Caucasion and African Americans who are of a Christian faith."
I assure you when I say this that I'm being sincere in an attempt to get around the racism issue we are debating. If you had said this from the beginning:
"Central Illinois happens to be a peaceful area and it fits me and my wishes for my family and i would like to keep it that way, WITHOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS, that does not make me racist."
I would never have played the race card. But "in my part of America, it is still dominated by a mixture of Caucasion and African Americans who are of a Christian faith."?? Why didn't you say, "In my part of America, it is dominated by hard-working people who came here legally.." or something to that effect? I'm guessing that you said it the way you did because a persons race and religion are important factors to you when judging their character. I make that guess based on your mention of race and religion when discussing illegal aliens.

Dictionary.com
Racism - The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

The point I'm making (still) is this: If you want to convince me of the priority of the illegal immigration issue you will have to bring some arguments to the table that show Mexico as the biggest problem. I'm willing to listen, really I am, but if you want to argue national security than I'm going to ask why you aren't talking about the ports. If you want to complain about sendiing jobs to Mexico I'm going to ask about Wal-Mart and Nike and if you want to talk about Mexicans taking American jobs I'm going to ask about the American's who profit from that cheap labor and the reasons that Mexican will take these jobs when Americans won't.

I don't know if I'm liberal or not (I disagree with the Democrats on Social Security, agree with the Republicans on Fiscal Responsibility...although they don't seem to believe it anymore) but I do know that the illegal immigration issue is about something more than national security and jobs. So far, the only thing that I know for sure is that the Mexican immigration problem is #1 when it comes to Mexican entering the country illegally. It does not appear to be #1 as a security risk, causation for lost jobs or crime. It just seems to me that, for whatever reason, the Mexicans are an easy target. It's just easy for everyone to scream about the Mexicans and blame them for everything that scares us but the facts don't tell it that way. I'M NOT DENYING IT'S AN ISSUE. It's just not the most important one... not by a long shot... and I don't understand why so many people like yourself are so mad about it.

3:56 PM  
gary holladay said...

The term "national security" means more than just some slob sneaking across with a dirty bomb. Look at the big picture: if we're spending massive resources and more each year to feed them, educate them, pay for medical care yada yada, that also is a drain on the country's security. It's not just about security in the war on terror alone. National security covers a wider range than you apparently realize. And if you don't know how many shipping containers are inspected these days why are you using port security as an issue to back up your points without facts? Was it because i cited as an example earlier the fact that we're targeted by people who have limited resources? That's only one example. I guess i could have written you an entire book using all examples of the detriments of illegal border crossings but that would be a bit lengthy.(my side note: didn't the LAX guy cross the Canadian border in a car? Did he not get caught? Was the intel that led to that capture gained as a result of security measures that are being taken despite the whiny-asses crying about it? Not sure, just wondering....)
My comment on sending jobs to Mexico: Yes, it IS part of the issue in that we've sent them enough jobs already. You took that comment as a complaint. It was a comment meaning "hey, isn't there enough work down there for them now?". But somehow that was taken as meaning "boo hoo woe is us,i hate wal mart".
Back to the "racism" issue. I didn't phrase it the way your overly politically correct liberal brain likes because i was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you could actually comprehend what i was getting at without explaining everything in full detail along with disclaimers. I look at everything from a realistic, face value angle. In the end, i ended up having to explain everything anyway. As i said earlier, i have a hard time articulating myself to you superlibs. I guess i assumed you understood the direction i was going that led to describe my community as hard working honest people. But, if i did say that, would you have accused me of insinuating that Mexicans are NOT hardworking honest people?
As for the convincing argument you seek in favor of securing the border: again, we actually have laws right now prohibiting the undocumented crossing of our borders we should have been enforcing them 20 years ago, when it wasn't near as bad of a problem. Shouldn't we be doing everything we can to plug up any holes in national security that we can in order to free up valuable resources to be put to better use? Yes, it's just now becoming a forefront issue due to the midterms coming up but so what. At least it's at the forefront and is being addressed somewhat. Better late than never, right? (side note: sounds like a good argument for holding congressional elections every year doesn't it?) Mexico is ONE of the biggest problems. Do you really think the Government is going to tackle ALL the problems? At the same time? This is a problem that could be relatively easy enough to fix. Let's start with the easy problems and get them out of the way, THEN move on to the more complicated ones. But somehow that's been twisted by you to mean that we are "targeting" Mexicans because we're racist and just plain mean to the poor Mexicans.
I've never heard anyone blame Mexicans for all that we fear. But i do blame them for what they're doing...breaking our laws.
You don't understand why so many people like myself are so mad about this issue. "We've" been mad about it for a long time, it's just that finally, after about 20 years, it has come to the forefront and you're just now hearing what people think BECAUSE it's in the forefront. I don't understand why it HAS to be the biggest problem in national security or the #1 prob in jobs problems etc. in order to tackle the problem. Let's just stop the infiltration...period. But some folks just whine and complain about being mean to poor people.

Dictionary.com: Liberal:Tending to give freely; generous.

You can decide whether or not to call yourself liberal.

Whai exactly is the most important issue right now in you opinion?

4:28 PM  
Booray said...

It's hard to say what the most important issue now is but I do know that I don't know anyone, nor have I ever known anyone who has been affected negativly by the illegal immigration issue. While I'm sure that we spend money because of it, I would be interested in seeing a true cost analysis that factors in the savings we get from cheap labor as well as the rent and sales tax paid out by the illegals. I will say this, I'll bet the amount of my yearly income tax that goes towards propping up the illegals is less than the increase in one month of my health insurance in the last 10 years.

If I had to choose what the government should make a priority I can say that health care costs, education reform, college tuition costs, securing the ports, chemical plants and nuclear facilities, social security solvency, the war in Iraq, the national debt... would all come ahead of immigration. Yet all we talk about is immigration... why is that? Also, why is it that it's been talked about for 20 years and not fixed?

I don't know but I suspect it has something to do with the upcoming mid-term elections. Immigration is such an easy campaign issue. They can't vote, they break the law... that's easy to be against. They will drive the issue to the forefront and get the faithful all worked up about it while continuing to ignore the issues that are really affecting Americans. And I'm just as pissed at the Democrats as I am the Republicans. YES, it's an issue but how about you solve some of those other issues you've been talking about first before you ask me to get all fired up about this one. The truth is I resent the manipulation of people like yourself by your representatives in Congress. I think that you are just as worried about the things I mentioned above as I am but your being led away from them to keep you focused on something that's hard to oppose. I'm sure you think I'm wrong but that's how good they are.... ALL OF THEM. I think you're a good guy who is being preached to about the evils of illegal immigration so you won't notice all the other things that they've failed to fix... ALL OF THEM.

I also believe that, after the elections, this issue will once again fade to the back-burner to be trotted out again the next time they need it. Wait and see...

I'm sure that the folks in southern Ca. and Ariz. have a lot to say on the issue, just as I'm sure that every state has unique problems that spill over into other states and to some extent the nation at large. But I believe that the national stage should be focused on bigger problems that affect every American directly.

Just my opinion.

You know, at some point we have to stop this..... my wife is getting annoyed and despite my commanding writing style, she's the one who's really in charge.

9:14 PM  
gary holladay said...

Well, i think that the illegal immigration issue is only one of several problems that need solved, and you're right, the war in Iraq, securing the ports, chemical plants and nuclear facilities, education reform, social security solvency, the national debt (in that order) are problems that should come first but what the hey,like i said, at least it's at the forefront for now so lets get it while it's hot. I was just commenting on your immigration article.
I have always been the type of dude that relies more on books and other sources of factual information instead of TV news channels. I know full well the games the pols play on us American citizens. You gotta have a good bullshit filter and know whats real and what's bullshit news. I know all about the attempted manipulation by Congressmen, i make up my mind after getting the facts straight. Never from politicians.
The reason this particular issue is only an election season issue is because both parties have an interest in keeping them coming: The Dems see potential voters and the GOP sees the cheap labor for their big business interests. That's why it's been like this 20 years. But, this time those Minute Men guys just might force congress to keep it a forefront issue.
I think we need a third party, one of grass roots, independant of any interest but that of Americans who want to actually fix the aforementioned problems, beholden to no one but that'll never happen because unfortunately, many of us are too lazy to voice ourselves. If everybody like us regularly wrote to these crooks and threatened their jobs they would be forced to listen.

Why's the wife getting annoyed? This is a great way to debate, hell this is fun stuff, there's no reason to get all bent out of shape about anything. Is there?

You should start a new issue we could debate on. Perhaps one not so much a hot button issue that would get Mrs. Boo annoyed at ya....

11:05 PM  
Booray said...

Mrs. Boo isn't annoyed with the debate, she's annoyed with the TIME I spend on the debate....

12:16 PM  
Sagnuts said...

I like 'em shaved, but not TOO shaved....

5:22 PM  
gary holladay said...

You like shaved, saggy nuts?

7:20 PM  

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